drive flange theory

Tech Q&A for the VTX 1800 - PLEASE keep this section tech-oriented only!

Oppinions after this year, please read or have read this.

1 I see and understand the wear and how its created in this post
10
38%
2 I don't see anything, the marks are coincidence
0
No votes
3 Press on the ID of the bearing is killing this
1
4%
4 Press on the od of the bearing is killing this
2
8%
5 Its a combination of press and the forces
1
4%
6 This post was well worth while
12
46%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: drive flange theory

Postby VTX18004Tim » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:26 pm

Thanks Bare!
I'll be sure to do so.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby timtrace » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:52 pm

timtrace wrote:Greetings from St. Louis -- Hey big bad -- do you have any of your modded VTX drive flanges available? How do I order/pay?

I just pulled my 2003 1800 C rear wheel to replace the well-worn OEM Dunny @10.5K with a Nexen 5000 205/60R16 CT, and wouldn't you know it, the flange bearing is worn. It's not crunchy but it's definitely unsmooth. No way it's going back on my bike.


Here I am, back to post my results :) I've got the rear wheel broken down for powder coating and Bad's remanufactured flange is sitting on my workbench.

Two years later with 5,000 miles on the clock, and the bearings in Bad's flange are as smooth and creamy as the day they went on the bike! Great engineering!

Do I need to do anything special to the flange before I bolt it back up? I think all the bearings are sealed, yes?

THANK YOU BAD AND BARE. Your work was worth every penny.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby big bad » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:08 pm

Glad it's still working for you, there is nothing you need to do. If you can slide the bushing out with the inner race you could smear new grease in it in theory. But to be honest I rather you didn't and I won't on mine unless I remove some grease for pics. These are capable in my opinion to run as long as the wheel bearings, and we don't regrease those.

Thanks for the update, and your time to look into this.

Broch
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby Bareass172 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:24 pm

You're welcome. Thanks for posting. :thumb:
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby Jimbo » Wed May 04, 2016 12:52 pm

Is Big Bad still retro-fitting final drive flanges? And if so, what is the contact info. I am at 102,000 miles on my 1800 C and ride it hard. Have redone the flange bearings a couple of times. Would like to get one of his. Thanks. Jimbo from the VTXOA
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby Bareass172 » Thu May 05, 2016 4:31 am

I'll shoot BB and email and tell him to swing by here and get with you. Everyone's kinda off busy with their own stuff right now and occasionally checking in. On stuff like this I just make him aware and he'll get with you pretty quick.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby Jimbo » Thu May 05, 2016 6:18 am

Thanks man.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby big bad » Thu May 05, 2016 9:36 am

Email or pm sent.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby VTX1800 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:23 pm

Wow I just found this thread and it has so much great info! I wish I'd found it sooner, now I have to sit down and digest it all.
A few weeks ago my rear brakes locked up (fairly new after market pads) They were smoking. After they cooled off they released.

I took them apart, cleaned and lubed pins and such... Couldn't find a thing wrong.

Someone mentioned the bearings could be bad. I lifted the bike and checked for swingarm play then removed the rear brakes and the wheel. Inspected the flange and bearings... Again couldn't find a thing wrong. (The bearings were nice and smooth) still I wanted more info on this topic.

I ordered a new set of bearings but cleaned and lubed the old ones and put them back in.
Then I did a full brake bleed and refill. Also the clutch while I was at it. As these pads were now burned to a crisp I put a brand new set of pads on. Everything seemed PERFECT!

During a test across town the new pads heated up and locked. I spent a whole day limping the bike from one intersection to another. Letting the brakes cool so they released.

After that I wondered if the new pads were just too thick so I put the old ones back on. They seeme to be working.

A few hours into a two week long ride I pulled over to put on some rain gear (middle of nowhere, thunder storm, late evening) As I pulled over the brakes locked up HARD! The rotor... Was glowing and the pads were worn down to the backing. After they cooled enough to release I disconnected the rear brakes and spent the next few weeks travelling without them. (Parts on order)
Up till that point I had been checking the brakes... They seemed good...

When I got home I took the entire brake system apart, front too back.
Cleaned and lubed levers and pivot points, rebuilt the entire rear brake system, new rubber new pads, new lube and pristine pins. Rebuilt the master cylinder and made sure the fluid return hole was clean.
Bled and filled the system again...

It's been a week now... So far so good. Each time the brakes had heated up I wasn't using them. It was from drag.
They still seem to drag but not to the same extreme.

As of now I still don't know what happened. Someone mentioned the flange bearing issue and how it could habve caused some sort of wobble and drag but I doubt it... In this case. But should I be checking the bearing situation further? Mine are about eight years old, factory, 40,000km in and out and cleaned many times.

I keep the factory bearing kit handy just incase.

Rear brakes have all new parts except the rotor and pistons. They were blued but no real warping.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby big bad » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:14 pm

I wouldn't pin that on the drive bearing, my first thought would be the piston seizing in your caliper I would pop it out and clean the bore. The get grimy and push out really well but they won't retract with all the garbage.

I would just inspect the flange when the tires off not much beyond that. Unless you get 40k between tires.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby Bareass172 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:11 pm

I could not agree with BB more. I've seen the exact situation you describe with the brakes locking up multiple times. Causes run anything from seized slide pins, stuck pistons, to poorly made aftermarket pads that are too tall (the HDL house brand were always too tall). I'm really glad to hear you didn't get hurt because that can obviously be dangerous, but I would rebuild the calipers as mentioned, replace the seals and clean the pistons. It's good practice when changing pads to always pull the caliper, spray it with brake cleaner and scrub the pistons with an old toothbrush to remove the crud, and then reassemble and grease the slide pins. I have an old 1 gallon ice cream bucket that I can put the calipers in so I can do this while they're still attached to the brake lines without making a mess all over the bike.
I would also steer clear of discount brake pads as you often get what you pay for. I'm not endorsing expensive pads, but I often find that cheap pads are either manufactured poorly and/or they wear out 10x faster than the more expensive ones.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby VTX1800 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:55 am

I completely agree, sorry my reply was perhaps a bit off topic, I was just considering how it brought the bearing issue to my attention more than anything. I rebuilt the brake system calipers/master and so far so good.
They are rather tall pads HDL I believe and they do still drag a bit but havent heated up since.

Now Im lookin more into the bearing issue as a preventative for if and when it does become a problem.
If I hadn't found this thread I wouldn't have known the precautions to take with the flange bearings.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby IL-Mark » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:31 pm

Just serviced my BB modified flange bearings, still running strong after many years and miles.
I took pictures but forgot how to postbthem.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby big bad » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Mine are good too, strange those who derailed the converstion are nowhere to be found. I'm glad I built this thread, and even happier people took the time to read it.
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Re: drive flange theory

Postby IL-Mark » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:46 pm

Me too, but happy I got the modified flange.
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